Andrew Leigh

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC CANBERRA BREAKFAST WITH ADAM SHIRLEY
MONDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2024

SUBJECTS: Census 2026.

ADAM SHIRLEY (HOST): Well, as you might have heard, the Federal Government has determined to include at least a couple of questions about gender and sex identity in the forthcoming Census. This has come after weeks of argument, of 180 degree turns and then recommitments. The Federal Government, as part of its election platform at the last election, said it would commit to including these questions. Then, as you know, reportedly Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, he wanted to remove said questions to avoid, apparently, another culture war. And the ensuing cry from those in the community saying, we just want to be counted, we just want to be represented, has meant now the government has said, yes, we'll go ahead and do it.

Doctor Andrew Leigh is an Assistant Minister in the Albanese Government and has responsibility for the Census. I caught up with him minutes ago to ask him about this process.

So, a lot of people watching the way this played out quite publicly might have scratched their head and wondered, why did the Government seem to make this so difficult for itself? How straightforward, in the end, is it to include questions of gender and sexuality in the Census?

ASSISTANT MINISTER ANDREW LEIGH: Well, Adam, we've had good intentions throughout. We've listened to the LGBT+ community and the decision we've come to is to include a topic on sexual orientation and gender. That'll be the first time it's been included in the Australian Census, although it's been in the New Zealand and the UK Census in the past and in other ABS surveys. These are questions that will be voluntary to answer and only asked of people aged 16 and over.

SHIRLEY: So, I still scratch my head at why good intentions became a confused internal message and then quite a backlash from the LGBTIQ+ community. Why did it have to be like this?

LEIGH: We've always sought to listen to people and in this case, I think we've arrived at the right result. We're led by a Prime Minister who is as committed as anyone in the parliament to inclusivity of LGBT+ Australians. This is a Prime Minister who, back in 1997, whose first term in parliament, moved a private member's motion to have superannuation for same-sex couples recognised. He was a strong advocate for marriage equality and was then the first sitting Prime Minister to march in the Mardi Gras. So, I think everyone recognises his strong commitment to the LGBT+ community, and that's reflected in the decisions we've made here.

SHIRLEY: So, I still don't get, though, why, reportedly, he wanted to create a situation where there was no risk of culture war or a worry that there might be one. Can you try and explain it to me like, I'm, I don't know, a ten-year-old. I still don't fully understand it, Minister.

LEIGH: Well, Adam, I'll leave others to talk about the internals. I'm pleased with where we've ended up, which I think is the right approach. We've got an appropriate balance here. We've recognised we're able to ask questions which will count LGBT+ Australians in a way in which they weren't counted before. That's a commitment that Labor has in our national platform. And I understand, too, and you haven't asked about it, but this is important. There was a proposal around intersex status. We weren't able to have a question there that the ABS was confident would produce reliable data. We'll continue to work with the intersex community to ensure that they're counted in future surveys.

SHIRLEY: Well, in fact, my next question, for those who have not read, what are the three questions which at this point? And I know they're draft questions based on the ABS's research, but what will we be asked in the Census?

LEIGH: Well, the government sets the topics and the ABS sets the precise questions. That's the way in which the legislation is laid out. So, we've been clear that there'll be a topic of sexual orientation and gender. I would expect that we'd have a couple of questions. They'd be pretty straightforward, along the lines of, what is your sexual orientation? What is your gender?

SHIRLEY: And regarding the intersex question, was that something the government was planning to include, but based on advice from the ABS, has decided not to at this stage?

LEIGH: We went with a recommendation from the Australian Bureau of Statistics that the survey questions that had been proposed wouldn't have produced reliable data. We recognise there are a group of intersex Australians born with variations of sex characteristics. We need to do a better job of counting those Australians. But the survey question which had been proposed, according to the experts in the Australian Bureau of Statistics, wouldn't have produced reliable data.

SHIRLEY: And Doctor Leigh, as the Australian Bureau of Statistics does the research and then puts forward the draft questions, to what degree will the LGBTIQ+ community have a chance to give their feedback, consult with the ABS to finalise what they see as the most appropriate way of asking these things?

LEIGH: Well, we've come to this point thanks to the Expert Advisory Committee, set up within the Australian Bureau of Statistics. That Expert Advisory Committee included representatives from a wide range of peak bodies and their expertise, their consultation with the community has been critical in how we've arrived at this point.

SHIRLEY: What's the timeline at this point? When might Australians know what these questions are?

LEIGH: So, we'll introduce a legislative instrument to the parliament before the end of this year that's required to have a new topic in place and that will allow the Australian Bureau of Statistics to go through its process of further testing and refining questions. Typically, the Census questions are finalised about a year out. The instrument needs to be introduced to parliament because it's a disallowable instrument, so it needs 15 sitting days before it is finalised, locked in, and then the ABS knows what the topics are for the 2026 Census.

SHIRLEY: As far as you can tell, what is the broad support or otherwise across the parliament for this to be included in the Census? Because there's been, I suppose, isolated public commentary and a few MPs giving their views. I'm just trying to understand how clearly this will pass the parliament and then be included in the next Census.

LEIGH: Look, I'm hoping it'll get broad support, Adam, these are sensible questions that have been asked in the New Zealand and British Censuses. As I mentioned before, they're not questions which directly change policy, they're simply about counting people. And that information should be important to all Australians. If people feel uncomfortable with these questions, then they can simply choose the option ‘prefer not to answer’, and move on to the next question.

SHIRLEY: Doctor Andrew Leigh is Assistant Minister for the Albanese government. He's, of course, the local Federal Member for Fenner, Adam Shirley, with you on ABC Radio Canberra, thanks for listening to Breakfast today. How important will this be more broadly to properly targeting government programs, support and, I suppose, making sure that spending is more efficient for services?

LEIGH: It will be really important, Adam. We know that members of the LGBT+ community have higher instances of health problems, including mental health problems. So, to the extent that we're locating services in particular areas, it is really important to know where people are located around Australia. This will be the first Australian Census that has asked about sexual orientation, the first Australian Census to have asked about gender. And that'll give us a broader picture of the diversity of Australia.

SHIRLEY: That is the Federal Member for Fenner, Doctor Andrew Leigh, Assistant Minister with responsibility for the Census, amongst other things.