Andrew Leigh

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP 
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury 

Government as a Learning Machine: Using Randomised Trials to Improve Productivity

AFR GOVERNMENT SERVICES SUMMIT

CANBERRA

TUESDAY, 29 JULY 2025

I acknowledge the Ngunnawal people, the traditional owners of the lands we are meeting on today. In so doing, I recognise that the issues we are discussing today have special resonance for First Nations communities. Governments that continually learn and improve will make faster progress at Closing the Gap.

A Learning Machine, Not a Guessing Game

When a German bakery chain wanted to improve sales, it didn’t bring in consultants or introduce a sweeping new business model. Instead, it tried something much simpler: it ran a randomised trial (Friebel et al., 2017).

Some of its 193 stores were offered a modest group bonus for staff. Others weren’t. After a few months, the results were in. The bonus group had increased sales by 3 per cent. For every dollar spent on bonuses, the company gained $3.80 in revenue and $2.10 in operational profit. Encouraged by these findings, the company rolled the program out more broadly. Profit margins rose by more than 60 per cent, which might be the best thing to come out of a bakery since pretzels.

It’s a reminder that in both business and policy, good ideas are important – but better still is knowing whether they work. And that’s what randomised trials offer: the ability to learn what works, what doesn’t, and where public resources will do the most good.

We’ve seen this thinking increasingly embraced in government, too. Across Australia’s public service, we’re embedding a culture of testing and learning – through small-scale trials, behavioural insights, and rigorous evaluation. From tax compliance nudges to SMS reminders that improve service delivery, we’re building an evidence base for better decisions.

Because being willing to learn isn’t a sign of weakness; it’s a sign of seriousness.

Almost a century ago, the philosopher John Dewey wrote that ‘a problem well put is half-solved’. Randomised trials help us frame problems clearly. They allow us to compare options fairly. And they help ensure that taxpayer dollars are used not just efficiently, but wisely.

In a world of tight budgets and rising expectations, that kind of disciplined curiosity matters more than ever. As a government, our job isn’t just to deliver services – it’s to keep making them better. And that begins with learning.

Over the next few minutes, I want to share how randomised trials are helping us do exactly that – from small changes that improve service delivery, to better policy design, to the infrastructure we’re building to make learning part of how government does business.

What Is Government Productivity – and How Do We Learn to Improve It?

In the private sector, productivity is relatively straightforward: output per unit of input. A delivery company that reduces the cost per parcel is improving its productivity. A call centre that shortens the average handling time without compromising service is doing the same.

In government, the outputs are more complex, and arguably more important. They’re things like higher school completion rates, shorter surgery wait times, fewer people stuck in long-term unemployment. What we care about is not profit margins, but public value.

So when we talk about government productivity, we’re talking about better outcomes for citizens – achieved with the same, or fewer, public resources.

And just like in the private sector, we improve productivity in government by understanding what works. Not just what sounds plausible, or what’s been done before, but what actually improves results.

That’s where randomised trials come in.

By comparing two versions of a program – one that includes a new intervention, and one that doesn’t – we can isolate the effect of that change. It might be an SMS reminder. A redesigned letter. A new digital prompt. Or a pilot coaching service for jobseekers. Some of these interventions work remarkably well. Others don’t. But each trial helps us learn, and over time, build a more effective, more responsive, and more productive public sector.

Crucially, these aren’t abstract exercises. They’re grounded in real-world decisions. Should we send this letter or that one? Should we roll out this new program nationally, or trial it first in two regions? Should we allocate resources toward one approach, or a better-tested alternative?

Every trial is a chance to find out.

And as we accumulate this evidence, we’re not just improving individual programs. We’re improving the system’s ability to learn. The learning machine gets stronger with each iteration. That’s the difference between policy and guesswork. It saves us from reinventing the wheel, only to discover it’s square.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP 
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury 

Speech to ACT Labor Conference

CANBERRA
 

SATURDAY, 26 JULY 2025

I begin by acknowledging the Ngunnawal people, traditional Custodians of the land we gather on.

To Chief Minister Andrew Barr and our mighty ACT MLAs, the trade union movement, and our Labor sub-branch members - thank you.

To the hardworking team of outgoing secretary Ash Van Dijk, new secretary Caitlin Cook, and party president Sue Ducker.

To the magnificent Alicia Payne and Dave Smith.

And to Katy Gallagher, who sends her apologies, missing her first ACT Labor Conference in 27 years. She’s not here in person, but she is here in spirit. And in at least three dozen Senate Estimates transcripts.

Delegates, 84 days ago, Labor won big.

We won 94 out of 150 seats in the House. More seats than any political party in Australian history.

As a share of the seats in the house, you have to go back to Curtin’s 1943 win to find a party with as big a majority.

How big was it?

So big, there isn’t enough space on the government benches to fit us all in.

Which is why five assistant ministers—including me—now sit on the opposition side.

We’re not rebels. We’re not the Cross Bench. We’re the Happy Bench. Think of us as Labor’s friendly occupying force.

Labor didn’t just hold every one of our seats. We picked up Menzies and Moore, Banks and Brisbane.

We unseated Peter Dutton and Adam Bandt. A two-for-one leadership special.

We didn’t manage to remove David Littleproud… but Barnaby Joyce is back in Canberra, and he’s working on that for us.

Now, Barnaby reminds me of the film Jaws, which turns 50 this year.

He’s like a giant animatronic shark—except it’s malfunctioning and eating its own crew.

So a message to the Nationals: keep Barnaby going. He has important work to do.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS AFTERNOON AGENDA WITH TOM CONNELL
FRIDAY, 25 JULY 2025

SUBJECTS: Labor’s non-compete reforms, Economic Reform Roundtable, productivity, budget sustainability

TOM CONNELL: Well, the government is making it harder for employers to have so called non-compete clauses. It says they were out of control, but it is willing to listen on changes that might need to be made on its legislation. Joining me is the Assistant Productivity Minister, Andrew Leigh. Thank you for your time. So, you're consulting on these changes…

ANDREW LEIGH: Pleasure Tom.

TOM CONNELL: Have you been told by business, for example, look - here's why we might need to use these more, here's the value of them. Are you open minded? I guess because you've been pretty critical of these agreements?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well Tom, a lot of fast-growing businesses are really enthusiastic about this change because they know that in a full employment economy, the only way of getting more workers is by hiring them from other firms. Fundamentally this is both about equality and freedom. Equality in the sense that a worker starting off isn't going to negotiate over a standard form agreement with a big firm. Freedom in the sense that people should be able to work for whoever they like without being shackled and left on the sidelines in an economy that has skills shortages and is crying out for talented workers.

TOM CONNELL: You are still shackled or you can be with wage - I think it's above $180,000 or so. Those people can often be, you know the real movers and shakers I guess of an economy. Is there a fundamental issue that they can still be offered, I guess, a non-compete? It's pretty hard to turn one down if your work offers you one. I guess if you're saying no, you're hinting you might be leaving soon and then often you're not paid in that period. Is there a provision to say if you're going to offer these to an employee, you've got to pay them while they're sitting idly on the sidelines?

ANDREW LEIGH: Tom, you ask a great question. We're getting rid of non-compete clauses for workers earning under $180,000 and then we're consulting about what to do above that level. In other countries such as Finland, you can't have a non-compete unless you compensate the worker. That's one option that's been put to us, but we'll engage constructively with business as to how to deal with that. The proposal though does cover the vast majority of workers - the cleaners, the hairdressers, the security guards, who we know are being shackled right now by non-compete clauses. You know, these are clauses that were originally meant to apply to high paid executives and now are applying to yoga instructors and fitness instructors.

TOM CONNELL: Alright. So you are genuinely considering where you are allowed to have one, you have to pay someone a replacement wage. During that period they can't leave instantly and work for a competitor?

ANDREW LEIGH: Look, there's a range of different options for what we do for over $180,000. That's about one in ten workers. For the nine in ten workers who are under that level, then we're looking to ban non-compete clauses. There's a long lead time on this. Treasurer Chalmers announced it in the Budget. It won't take effect until the beginning of 2027. So, we're moving constructively with business on a really important productivity boosting reform. This is going to mean lower inflation, it's going to mean higher wages and it's going to increase the number of businesses that we see started up in the economy. Good for wages, good for prices, good for productivity.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP 
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury 

OPINION PIECE

A Productivity Agenda That Puts People First

Published in The Canberra Times

25 July 2025

In 1930, John Maynard Keynes looked a century ahead and predicted that productivity growth would transform the lives of future generations. Nearly a hundred years on, Australia’s standard of living has soared. Real income per person is more than five times higher than it was when Keynes wrote. Our homes are larger, our education better, our healthcare more advanced.

But Australia faces a new challenge. For much of the past two decades, productivity growth has slowed. Output per hour worked barely moved in the five years leading up to the pandemic. Since then, capital deepening has lagged. Sectoral shifts have made productivity harder to measure – and harder to lift.

This isn’t just an economic concern – it’s a social one. Productivity is the primary driver of real income growth. It’s what pays for aged care and childcare, for better schools and bolder ambitions. Without it, the nation struggles to lift living standards, reduce inequality, or build the society we aspire to.

Recognising this, the Albanese Government has placed productivity at the heart of our economic strategy – not in the abstract, but in a way that is practical, inclusive and forward-looking. What we call the “progressive productivity agenda” focuses on three key areas: investing in individuals, in infrastructure, and in institutions.

Take individuals. Productivity is ultimately about what people can do – the ideas they generate, the technologies they adopt, the challenges they solve. To build those capabilities, we’ve funded free TAFE and expanded university access – especially for students from underrepresented backgrounds. A more skilled workforce is a more productive one.

We’re strengthening healthcare, too, because a modern, efficient health system is economic infrastructure. New urgent care clinics are relieving pressure on hospitals. Expanded bulk billing is cutting out-of-pocket costs and lifting wellbeing. Better health enables fuller participation, fewer absences, and a stronger capacity to contribute.

The Hon Jim Chalmers MP
Treasurer

The Hon Amanda Rishworth MP
Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations

The Hon Dr Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

Consultation on reforms to non-compete clauses to boost wages and productivity

Friday, 25 July 2025

The Government is taking the next step in reforming non-compete clauses that are holding back Australian workers from switching to better, higher‑paying jobs.

Today we are releasing a consultation paper to gather insights and feedback from workers, business and the broader community about how we ban non-compete clauses to boost productivity and wages across the Australian economy.

Reforming non‑compete clauses is about encouraging aspiration, unlocking opportunity, lifting wages for working people, and making Australia’s economy more dynamic and competitive.

Right now, more than three million Australian workers are covered by these clauses, including childcare workers, construction workers, disability support workers and hairdressers.

Workers should not be handcuffed to their current job when there are better opportunities available for them and that’s what these reforms address.

Research suggests a ban on non-competes could lift the wages of affected workers by up to four per cent, or about $2,500 per year for a worker on median wages.

Productivity Commission modelling suggests the changes could improve productivity and add $5 billion or 0.2 per cent to GDP annually, as well as reduce inflation.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury 

Welcome Remarks to Fundraising Institute of Australia, CEO Forum

ONLINE ADDRESS

WEDNESDAY, 23 JULY 2025

I begin by acknowledging the Ngunnawal people, the Traditional Custodians of the land on which I’m recording this message. I pay my respects to their Elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all First Nations people joining today’s forum.

Fundraising is a bit like electricity – most people don’t think about it when it’s working, but everything grinds to a halt when it’s not. It keeps the lights on – literally and figuratively – for civil society. And yet too often, it’s treated as incidental rather than essential.

Fundraising doesn’t just keep organisations afloat – it animates civil society. It links private generosity with public purpose. It ensures that local energy and national ambition aren’t just expressed, but resourced. It’s the engine room of good intentions – but one that still requires careful tuning.

That work is both human and strategic. A small shift in timing, message or medium can translate into deeper engagement. It’s rarely linear – often more trial and error than formula. Sometimes more error than trial. But over time, thoughtful fundraising builds trust, amplifies voice, and enables sustained impact.

This is especially important now, as artificial intelligence begins to reshape how organisations work. AI can personalise donor engagement, identify patterns in real time, and sharpen campaign targeting. Used well, it can extend your reach and help you spend less time crunching data and more time building relationships.

Used carelessly, it risks generating the kind of insights that are technically accurate – and completely useless. Technology can assist – but it can’t replace insight, tone, or tact.

The most successful fundraising efforts of recent years didn’t begin with a data model. The Ice Bucket Challenge worked not because it was optimised, but because it was unexpected, participatory, and fun. The Five Bucks platform resonated because it made giving simple, social and visible. These were human ideas – amplified by technology, but not produced by it.

That’s worth remembering as new tools proliferate. AI can help refine messages, but it cannot create meaning. It can analyse behaviour, but it cannot build trust. When used carelessly, it risks turning supporters into data points – and eroding the very foundations of civil society.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2CC RADIO CANBERRA, BREAKFAST WITH STEPHEN CENATIEMPO
TUESDAY, 22 JULY 2025

SUBJECTS: Antisemitism, Israel-Gaza conflict, Economic Reform Roundtable

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Joining us now to talk federal politics is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury and the Member for Fenner, Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.

ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Stephen, great to be with you.

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Now, there’s a lot of things we need to get through because it is the first sitting week of parliament for the term. But this delay in implementing Jillian Segal’s recommendations has no – there is no rationale for that whatsoever. And the comments by Jason Clare, “Well, we need to wait for this other report on Islamophobia,” that’s not actually happening, from an Envoy that’s not actually doing anything because they haven’t hired any staff. There is no reason why these recommendations can’t be implemented, because they’re not going to affect Islamophobia?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, Stephen, we take antisemitism very seriously…

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Well, no you don’t. No, you don’t. You say that. Everybody says that, but you don’t. Let’s be honest.

ANDREW LEIGH: We banned the Nazi salute and hate symbols. There’s penalties of up to a year imprisonment. We’ve invested $4 million in the National Holocaust Remembrance Centre…

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Because that’s what the problem is, because that’s going to stop firebombing of synagogues, yeah.

ANDREW LEIGH: We’ve announced $100 million for countering violent extremism. We’ve passed legislation to criminalise hate speech…

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah, how’s that going?

ANDREW LEIGH: We’ve appointed the first Antisemitism Commissioner, and so that’s an important measure. And we’re working with the states and territories on a national hate crimes and incident database. And our first…

STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: And yet after all that there’s been an increase in antisemitism?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, it’s certainly true that passing laws doesn’t eliminate bad behaviour. That’s true of every law we pass, including the murder law.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS
MONDAY, 21 JULY 2025

SUBJECTS: Labor’s productivity agenda, Economic Reform Roundtable, Prime Minister’s visit to China

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Here to discuss this. Senator Bragg joins us, and so does the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities, and Treasury Andrew Leigh. They're both in the studio with me because the Parliament's about to sit. Welcome to both of you.

ANDREW BRAGG: G’day.

ANDREW LEIGH: Thanks, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I will start with you because you're proposing this Joint Select Committee. Why? The government's about to have a roundtable, which is very much on this topic.

ANDREW BRAGG: Well it's a wicked problem, and we think that you can do more in a couple of years on a serious issue like this than can be done in just three days in Canberra. And so, we want to work with the government to find the real root of the problem here, of why we have negative productivity growth in Australia, but also to try and help fashion together the community support needed for the inevitable changes that are required.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So will you support it?

ANDREW LEIGH: It’ll be up to the Senate Patricia, but we've got a strong productivity agenda building on the work of the last term. We'll be bringing forward legislation to get rid of non-compete clauses for low and middle income workers. We’ve got National Competition Policy roaring ahead, collaborating with the states and territories. We've got a strong progressive deregulation agenda now. We need to be building more. We need to be investing in individuals, institutions and infrastructure in order to get that productivity challenge under control. Because we know that decade, that 2020 was the worst productivity decade in the post-war era.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So just to be clear, you're not opposed to the idea of having a longer committee that looks into these issues?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, I'm in the House. Andrew is in the Senate, and the Senate will figure out which committees it sets up.

The Hon Josh Wilson MP
Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy
Assistant Minister for Emergency Management 
Federal Member for Fremantle 

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury
Member for Fenner 

E&OE
DOORSTOP INTERVIEW
FLYNN, ACT

MONDAY, 21 JULY 2025

Subjects: Social Housing Energy Performance Initiative, ACT Productivity Roundtable

ANDREW LEIGH, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRODUCTIVITY, COMPETITION, CHARITIES AND TREASURY: Well, good morning, everyone. My name is Andrew Leigh, the Federal Member for Fenner and the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Charities, Competition and Treasury. I went for a run up Mount Majura yesterday in minus three degrees and an experience common to many Canberrans of the winters here really striking to the bone. Canberra is a beautiful city, but a chilly city, too, and one that therefore benefits hugely from energy efficiency upgrades. We're here in the suburb of Flynn, which was gazetted in 1971 and the house behind us built in 1972. That means it had available to it the best building technologies of 1972 which, needless to say, are not the best building technologies in 2025. And that's why the Federal Government has been partnering with the ACT government and states and territories across the nation in order to improve energy efficiency in Australian homes. The home behind us has benefited from energy upgrades, including better insulation in the ceiling and a heat pump put in place to ensure that this home doesn't rely on gas. That's part of a commitment for the federal government to meet the net zero targets that we know we need to ensure that Australia does its bit to combat climate change. But at the very same time, these energy upgrades benefit the public housing residents that are in them by ensuring that they're warmer on those chilly Canberra days, and that they can make important savings on the energy bills. I'll now hand over to my friend and colleague, Josh Wilson, to say more about the program, and he'll then hand to Yvette and Suzanne to talk about the details from an ACT perspective. Josh, over to you.

JOSH WILSON: Thanks, Andrew and good morning, everyone. It is fantastic to be here with Andrew Leigh and colleagues from the ACT government to celebrate a milestone in the partnership between the Albanese Government and the Barr ACT Government when it comes to our Social Housing Energy Performance Initiative (SHEPI) at the federal level, and we're glad to provide funding to support the excellent work that the ACT government is doing to ensure that social housing tenants benefit from energy performance upgrades. As Andrew has pointed out, Australian housing that was built decades ago is not as efficient as housing that we build today, and that means that social housing tenants, some of the more vulnerable members of our community, experience housing that can be too cold in winter and too hot in summer, and in addition, they pay too much for the energy that they use. So, last year, when we delivered the first National Energy Performance Strategy, we followed that up with $2.2 billion in funding, including $800 million now through the SHEPI to see 100,000 social housing dwellings around Australia upgraded, meaning that those tenants enjoy more liveable housing, but also housing that is cheaper to operate, whilst making a contribution to bringing emissions down as we track towards net zero by 2050. it's really important that all Australians benefit from the kind of technology that can deliver cheaper energy prices but reduce emissions at the same time. And social housing tenants have missed out on that, partly because of the age of the housing stock, and partly because of their circumstances. The Albanese Government isn't going to allow that to happen, and we're really glad to partner with the ACT government that has leaned into this area. Quite remarkably, today, we've reached the milestone of 3,000 upgraded social housing dwellings in the ACT, on track to 5,000 here in the AC T, as I said, 100,000 Australia wide. It's a really important partnership. I'm very happy now to hand over to Minister Berry to say a bit more about what the ACT has been doing in this space.

YVETTE BERRY, ACT DEPUTY CHIEF MINISTER: Thanks everyone for coming over today, and as you'll see behind me, a good example of some of the upgrades that will be happening into our public housing properties. The program includes community housing properties, as well. This home has the works. It has a energy efficient heating and cooling, energy efficient hot water system, as well as insulation in in the roof these homes. These homes, as we know, are not the warmest homes, and so putting all of these upgrades in provides some dignity, I think, to our public housing tenants in the ACT who can know that they're contributing to the ACT government and the federal government's net zero goals in future years. But saving a significant amount of money between $1,500 and $2,000 on average a year, immediate saving of $300 because they don't have to hook up to gas. And I just know that it's going to make a difference to the living outcomes of people who live in our public housing properties here in the ACT, as well as community housing. As was just said, we're at 3,000 now, which is a significant milestone, so we're on target to meeting that goal of 5,000 by the end of next year, and really excited to hear from public housing tenants what a difference it's making to their lives and what it's made a difference it's making to our Canberra community as well to meet those really important emissions targets. Now I’ll hand over to Minister Orr to give a little bit more detail on climate action.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO CANBERRA, BREAKFAST WITH ROSS SOLLY
MONDAY, 21 JULY 2025

SUBJECTS: ACT Roundtable, Peter Ryan condolences, Labor’s productivity agenda

ROSS SOLLY: Some time ago you would have heard the news that the federal government is going to convene a roundtable to look at our economic future and how to increase productivity et cetera, et cetera. They’re bringing together some of the greatest minds from a lot of different fields across the nation. Well now we’ve learned that ahead of that the ACT Government - in collaboration with our federal MPs, are going to bring together a similar roundtable involving ACT businesses, unions, industry groups et cetera, et cetera. So what sort of things will be on the table? What sort of questions are going to be asked? Andrew Leigh is the Member for Fenner and joins us on the show this morning. Andrew Leigh, good morning to you.

ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Ross. Great to be with you.

ROSS SOLLY: And with you. Can I just, Andrew Leigh, totally off topic here, but the sad news this morning – and I know you would have dealt quite a lot with Peter Ryan in your role in various finance portfolios. But the news this morning that Peter Ryan has sadly passed away just weeks after leaving the ABC. I know you’ve dealt with Peter Ryan in the past, but what sort of experiences did you have with him?

ANDREW LEIGH: He was certainly somebody who was a giant of the business reporting arm of the ABC. And you know, the ABC is a national treasure, as was Peter Ryan. He had that stint working in Washington DC, and a really respected voice, somebody who brought a lot to a national conversation. I think we do business reporting really well here in Australia, and a lot of that is part of great journalists like Peter. Of course, a Walkley Award winner, a real lion of the Australian journalism pantheon.

ROSS SOLLY: And can I just say this about Peter Ryan. My own experience with him - no matter how stupid the questions, he was always willing to give time to give a sensible answer. And I threw my fair share of stupid questions to Peter over the years, and he was always very, very kind. Adrian in Moncrieff says, “It’s so sad to hear about Peter Ryan’s passing. While I’ve never met him, listening to him during every AM, the World Today and PM as the business correspondent, to give the great advice explaining it for everyone to understand and keeping us up-to-date with the latest happenings during these turbulent years in the markets. It hit me to hear about his passing today. Hope all ABC staff look after yourselves today and know how much you become part of many random people’s lives.” Thank you, Adrian. That’s a lovely message. And yes, he did touch a lot of people here at the ABC. Andrew Leigh, so you’re now going to bring together an ACT form of this federal roundtable. Who’s going to be invited, and what sort of things are you looking for?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, it will be a broad cross-section of the Canberra business community, unions and the public sector. What we’ll be aiming to do is to get together a lot of those ACT ideas about productivity. Of course, we’ve got a national challenge in productivity. The decade up to 2020 was the worst productivity decade in the post-war era. And when we came to office we had the worst quarterly fall in productivity in 45 years. So this isn’t going to be turned around quickly. That’s why we need to bring together as many good ideas and perspectives as we can. Canberra’s business structure is a bit different from other states and territories, a bit less manufacturing and mining, a little bit more services and some of those services that are serving the international community. So I think we have a lot to bring to the productivity conversation.

ROSS SOLLY: Yeah I mean, we do have some fairly unique situations – circumstances here compared to other jurisdictions. Does that lessen our relevance in terms of the overall approach to what we could be doing federally?

ANDREW LEIGH: Not in the least. Indeed, the work we’re doing trying to make sure that we have a more productive public sector is work where Canberra can bring particular insights. Katy Gallagher of course, has been working a lot around – in her role as the minister responsible for the public service in ensuring not only that we have the new values of stewardship but also that the public service is making effective use of new technology, such as artificial intelligence, to deliver better for Australians. One of the issues we had in the last election was this discussion over the proposal to slash the public sector from the Coalition. And I think the way in which that was resoundingly rejected at the ballot box does reflect the strong support that Australians have for effective public services and the public servants that deliver them.

ROSS SOLLY: Yeah. You will probably get though, if you get members of the business community – we’re going to get a response later on from the business community to what sort of things they might bring to the table. There’s a bit of a feeling here in the ACT that, you know, that we’re overtaxed and underserviced just to put it bluntly. And that maybe given the amount of taxes that are paid that we should be getting better services and that businesses should be getting more support. Do you think that’s justified and, Andrew Leigh, a lot of that is out of your control because it’s up to the ACT Government to work the levers on that one. But can you influence ACT Government policy if enough people are telling you of their dissatisfaction with the level of service and the approach of the government?