Andrew Leigh

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS
MONDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2025

SUBJECTS: March for Australia protests, Nauru MOU with Australia, aged care

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition and Charities. Zali Steggall is the Independent MP for Warringah. Welcome to both of you. Zali Steggall, do you think it's an equivalent hijacking by extremists on both sides?

ZALI STEGGALL: No, not at all. We know the march last weekend was a racist march organised by Neo-Nazis, overtly. There's no comparison to the hundreds of thousands, millions, I think, when you add up all the different protests. The March for Humanity that are concerned about the purposeful starvation of innocent civilians and children. I attended the Sydney March across the Harbour Bridge and it was overwhelmingly families…

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But there were signs, a couple. I saw the Ayatollah, like there were some extremist elements?

ZALI STEGGALL: There may have. And I should say the media has overwhelmingly focused on that one sign. I certainly did not see it. And there was an overwhelming amount of people of all cultural backgrounds from our communities, from many communities around Sydney. Because that's where I was. Overwhelmingly families with children who felt so distressed for humanity that children are being starved to death.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Do you think there's an equivalence in the extremism that have hijacked both movements?

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO PERTH, MORNINGS WITH NADIA MITSOPOULOS
MONDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2025

SUBJECTS: Albanese Government cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Well, we talk a lot on this program about shrinkflation. Now, you know what it is - you all experience it. That’s when the size or the quantity or the contents of a product suddenly reduces, but the price stays the same, and you are not told about it. And I know you notice this. I certainly do. I think I measured 16 Pringles. I weighed – when the size of a Pringles carton was reduced, I measured it and that was the equivalent to 16 Pringles. So, what have you noticed? And how do you feel about it? Because I know it annoys a lot of you. Get in touch on 1300 222 720 because it seems the government is finally going to try and do something about this. So, let’s get more from Dr Andrew Leigh, who is the Assistant Minister. Good morning, and thank you for talking to me.

ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Nadia, great to be with you.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: You’re starting a consultation process today. What are you consulting the public on?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, we need to crack down on shrinkflation. As you said, sometimes it’s happening with confectionery, sometimes it’s happening with drinks - beers that used to be 375ml now dropping down to 330ml. I’ve even heard of stories of it happening with the size of toilet paper squares and the concentration of detergent. And so, we’re doing a consultation now about some big changes to the Unit Pricing Code which regulates shrinkflation. That will include extending its scope to more retailers, getting better price comparisons and putting some penalties behind the Unit Pricing Code.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: So how does the code of conduct actually handle this at the moment or deal with it, or does it?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, it requires comparisons on unit pricing as the name suggests. But sometimes those comparisons aren’t as clear as they should be, and sometimes you’ve got the same supermarket line which is showing some products per 100 grams and other products per kilogram. You also have the problem that there can be a bit of a sneaky drop in size of a product while the price stays the same.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Sixteen Pringles Assistant Minister. Sixteen Pringles.

ANDREW LEIGH: Wars have been fought over less. So one of the things that we’re looking at is whether it’s appropriate then to have shoppers notified if there’s an instance of shrinkflation that’s adverse to them.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
3AW MELBOURNE, MORNINGS WITH TOM ELLIOTT
MONDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2025

SUBJECTS: Albanese Government cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout, housing

TOM ELLIOTT: Okay, Shrinkflation. Now, we all know what it is. You know, you buy a block of Cadbury's Dairy Milk every week. It costs $5. It used to have 240 grams of chocolate. One day it's 220 grams, but it still costs $5. Or a packet of chips used to be 50 grams; suddenly it’s 45 grams. You know, 10 per cent less, same price. The federal government is not happy and wants to do something about it. And our next guest, the Assistant Minister for Productivity and Competition, Andrew Leigh. Good morning.

ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Tom, great to be with you.

TOM ELLIOTT: Well, we know it when we see it but what can we actually do about it?

ANDREW LEIGH: We're seeing shrinkflation all over the place. I mean, you mentioned the chocolate example, but it’s happening with chips, it's happening with confectionery, it's happening even with toilet paper and detergents. We're getting on top of it through strengthening the Unit Pricing Code, which is the code that basically tells the big supermarkets what they've got to do in order to provide us the right information. So, we're looking at extending it across more retailers, making sure that the shelf labels compare apples with apples and putting some penalties behind that code.

TOM ELLIOTT: Yeah. Because I mean, if I have the time, I do look at, you know, the price per 100 grams and weirdly with dishwasher tablets is the price per tablet. Because they're sold in so many different packet sizes and whatever, it's very hard to compare them. But I mean, I suppose the issue is most people, and I put myself in this category, you know, we go to the supermarket for quickness and convenience. We want to go and get our stuff and get out, and we probably don't have the time or the inclination to cross check all the different prices.

ANDREW LEIGH: Yeah, that's right. And one of the recommendations that the competition watchdog gave us at the start of this year when we got them to do a deep dive into supermarket competition, is that if the size of the packet changes in a way that's adverse to the consumer, then there should be a requirement to notify shoppers about that change. So, that's one of the changes we're consulting on today.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO CANBERRA, BREAKFAST WITH ROSS SOLLY
MONDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2025

SUBJECTS: March for Australia protests, Labor’s productivity agenda

ROSS SOLLY: So, Dr Andrew Leigh is the Member for Fenner. He's also the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury and he joins us on the program this morning. Dr Leigh, good morning to you.

ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Ross, great to be with you.

ROSS SOLLY: And you as well. What did you make of the rallies around Australia yesterday?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, I think it was really troubling Ross, to see these Neo-Nazis standing up on platforms decrying Australian multiculturalism and missing the fact that except for Indigenous Australians, all of us are either migrants or the children of migrants. Migrants aren't just mouths to feed, they're muscles to build and minds to inspire. And successive generations of migrants have greatly enriched Australia, which is one of the world's most well-functioning multicultural democracies.

ROSS SOLLY: Yeah. And that point has been made by a number of listeners this morning that in fact nearly all of us are indeed migrants. The fact though, Andrew Leigh, that there were thousands marching and they were small, spread right around the country. Yes, it's easy to say, well they're Neo-Nazis or they're racist, but at the heart of it, does it identify a bigger problem?

ANDREW LEIGH: We've always had anti-migrant sentiments bubbling as an undercurrent in Australia. You think back to the Lambing Flat riots or the Cronulla riots. These things have happened in the past in Australia. But you know, it's always disappointing to see people demonising some of the most vulnerable in Australia. I was really pained to hear interviews with migrants who felt personally at risk from those demonstrations. And of course, we saw the direct attacks on police officers. Now the fact is Ross, migration has been a great benefit to Australia. You think about Victor Chang, the heart surgeon, Karl Kruszelnicki, the Swedish born science communicator or biologist Gus Nossal.

ROSS SOLLY: Yeah, for sure.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
DOORSTOP PRESS CONFERENCE
DICKSON SQUARE, ACT
MONDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2025

SUBJECTS: Albanese Government cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout, March for Australia protests, 5 per cent deposits for all first home buyers, age assurance technology trial

ANDREW LEIGH: Well, good morning everyone and welcome to Canberra on the first day of Spring. My name is Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Competition.

When your chocolate bar loses two squares but keeps the same price, that's not magic - that's shrinkflation. And Australians are feeling the effect of shrinkflation in their regular shop. We've seen shrinkflation in chips, we've seen it in chocolate, we've even seen it in toilet paper and detergents. The Albanese Government is cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout with a review of the Unit Pricing Code that kicks off today.

As part of that review, we're investigating a range of potential reforms that might include extending the number of retailers covered by the Unit Pricing Code of Conduct. It might include ensuring better display on the shelf. It could include ensuring that we have the same measures being compared across products - not one product per 100 grams and another product per kilogram. It might include putting penalties on the Unit Pricing Code of Conduct. The Albanese Government wants shoppers to get a fair deal at the checkout.

We're holding the supermarkets to account. We've already given an additional $30 million to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission in order to allow them to do their important work in keeping the supermarkets to account. We've held the first major review of supermarket competition in more than 15 years, and we've increased the penalties for anti-competitive conduct.

The Albanese Government recognises that in Australia we have a very concentrated supermarket sector, with the two majors holding significant market share. And even despite the entry of Aldi into the market a couple of decades ago, we've still seen the market share of the majors holding the same. As they say in Spider-Man, ‘with great power comes great responsibility’, and our big two supermarkets have great power. So, with that we're cracking down on the Unit Pricing Code of Conduct, ensuring that Australians don't suffer shrinkflation at the checkout and that the supermarkets can't pull the wool over our eyes. Happy to take questions.

JOURNALIST: So, what makes this different to the review that we saw in March from the ACCC?

ANDREW LEIGH: The ACCC recommended that we crack down on shrinkflation, and this is one of our one of the ways we're implementing that review. This consultation, which kicks off today and wraps up in a couple of weeks, is about implementing the ACCC’s recommendation to crack down on shrinkflation and get shoppers a better deal at the checkout.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO CANBERRA, SATURDAY BREAKFAST WITH EMMA BICKLEY
SATURDAY, 30 AUGUST 2025

SUBJECTS: Albanese Government cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout

EMMA BICKLEY: The federal government is currently looking at ways for shoppers to more easily compare prices on supermarket shelves. I don't know about you, but I love unit pricing. You know, I can compare apples with apples. But also, I want to know when brands are short-changing me. Andrew Leigh is Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury. Welcome to the program.

ANDREW LEIGH: Thanks Emma, great to be with you.

EMMA BICKLEY: Thanks. Now Assistant Minister, shoppers are really feeling the pinch when they're at the supermarket. What measures would you be looking at in this new consultation to make it easier for people to spot when they're being short-changed or when shrinkflation is playing a part?

ANDREW LEIGH: Well Emma, I share your love for unit pricing. It makes it a whole lot easier when you're a shopper, and one of the things we've seen in recent years is a lot of these instances of companies which have downsized their products but kept the price the same. We've seen it with Freddo Frogs. We've seen it with Smith's chips. We've seen it with Pringles. We've even seen it with toilet paper. Kimberly-Clark admitted to shortening the length of each square of toilet paper from 11 centimetres to 10 centimetres.

EMMA BICKLEY: I mean, I thought Freddo Frog got a little bit skinnier, but I assumed he was just taking better care of himself? Are you saying he's actually getting smaller?!

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO SYDNEY, SATURDAY BREAKFAST WITH DOM KNIGHT
SATURDAY, 30 AUGUST 2025

SUBJECTS: Sydney Marathon, Albanese Government cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout

DOM KNIGHT: Now, I wonder whether you've ever had an experience my family had on Monday night. Got a little after dinner treat - a box of mini ice creams from a well-known supplier, and open up the mini ice creams. We thought, ‘Have these gotten more mini? Smaller than they used to be!’ Now look, maybe I at least probably benefit from that in terms of waistline, but it's not necessarily great in terms of value. This is a thing called ‘shrinkflation’. I'm not sure if they were smaller. They just seem smaller. But this is something that's been happening for years. The price cost the same, but the items get smaller. The federal government wants to do something about it. They're going to strengthen the so-called Unit Pricing Code, and there's a plan to name and shame brands that do this; reduce the size but keep the price the same. Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury. Good morning Assistant Minister.

ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Dom, how are you?

DOM KNIGHT: I'm very well thank you. Now, before we get into this, I hear you're running the marathon tomorrow?

ANDREW: I am! I’m looking forward to lining up. It'll be my fourth Sydney Marathon, so always a wonderful race over the bridge at the start, finishing at the Opera House and a good 42 kilometres in between.

DOM KNIGHT: Well, it's the first time it’s an official majors, so it's an exciting day for marathon fans?

ANDREW LEIGH: It's fabulous, yes. So, it'll be a good run. It's been a little bit more competitive. It used to be anyone could just get an entry but these days you've got to get lucky in the ballot.

DOM KNIGHT: You're doing pretty well when you've got a room for 35,000 people and you're turning people away. Anyway, look all the best with that tomorrow. But let's get on to this question of shrinkflation. What are you planning to change to try and get this well, at least more transparent, even it doesn't stop it?

ANDREW LEIGH: Dom I thought your example of the ice creamwas a perfect one. And we're seeing this in all kinds of different products. Freddo Frogs have shrunk in size. Pringles have shrunk in size. Used to be most beers were 375ml - a lot of them are dropping down to 330ml. Now, wine makers are sometimes selling in 700ml bottles, rather than the usual 750ml. Pippa Malmgren, a US economist has dubbed it shrinkflation when the size goes down, but the price goes the same. So, we want to make sure that consumers have the information they need in order to make informed decisions at the checkout, and that means knowing when shrinkflation is going on in front of you.

The Hon Dr Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

Cracking down on shrinkflation at the checkout

30 August 2025

The Albanese Government is cracking down on shrinkflation and working to make it easier for Australians to compare grocery prices by strengthening the Unit Pricing Code.

To help inform next steps, the Albanese Government will release a consultation paper on Monday outlining options to help shoppers make more informed choices and realise the full benefits of unit pricing.

We are seeking community and stakeholder views on options, including:

• Introducing a new shrinkflation notification regime
• Improving unit price display requirements (including readability and prominence)
• Expanding the scope of retailers covered by the Unit Pricing Code
• Addressing inconsistency in units of measure to improve in-store and cross-retailer price comparisons
• How to introduce civil penalties for non-compliance

This consultation is part of our election commitment and series of actions to help Australian consumers get a better deal at the checkout. These include providing the ACCC with over $30 million to address harmful or misleading conduct in the supermarket and retail sectors, funding CHOICE to give shoppers more information on supermarket prices, increasing penalties for breaches of the competition and consumer law, and making supermarket price gouging illegal.

One party delivered ‘back in black’ mugs. The other party delivered surpluses

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury

House of Representatives

Thursday 28 August

ANDREW LEIGH: This is a mug. Don't be afraid. Don't be scared. It's a mug.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Prop!

DEPUTY SPEAKER: If Members want to shout at me as they leave the chamber, it will be regarded as highly disorderly. Assistant Minister, I didn't see that but I saw it at the tail end, and you aren't to have props at the despatch box. Member for Goldstein, you can sit down now. I'm assuming that's what your point of order was. Let's start again with a little less heat, and that includes interjections. Let's try it again.

ANDREW LEIGH: You talk about mugs and suddenly there's the member for Goldstein! The fact is those opposite...

DEPUTY SPEAKER: A point of order from the Member for Cowper.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not hear. My apologies.

[INTERJECTING]

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Excuse me! Would you like to challenge my reading of the situation? If so, get into your seat and make a proper point of order, or leave the chamber quietly and respectfully, please. Member for Cowper, you've raised a point of order. Assistant Minister, I did not hear, but if there was something unparliamentary, or a reflection, could you please withdraw for the assistance of the House?

ANDREW LEIGH: I withdraw.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.

ANDREW LEIGH: As we talk about glass jaws, the fact is those opposite printed the mugs. They're pretty embarrassed about it. That's why they're jumping to their feet the moment anyone mentions it. They never delivered a surplus. Labor has delivered two back-to-back surpluses. We've kept average real spending growth to 1.7 per cent. What about their average real spending growth? It was 4.1 per cent. We have found more than $100 billion in savings since coming to government. Those opposite talk about hard choices. What was the hard choice that they came to the last election with? A $600 billion nuclear plan, delivering less than 4 per cent of Australia's electricity needs, in decades. They took a plan to the last election that would not have turned on a light for 20 years. It would have pushed up energy bills by $1,200 a year and would have involved spending more.

They took another policy to the last election - their long lunches for bosses policy. Who remembers that wonderful policy? A policy they were so proud of that by the end of the campaign they weren't talking about it. If every eligible business had claimed the maximum, the cost would have been more than $10 billion. What would it have done for productivity? It would have driven productivity down. That's what happens when you take long lunches. So, we're taking no lectures from those opposite about budget sustainability and about productivity.

The Hon Andrew Leigh MP 
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury 

Canberra Behavioural Lab Launch

ONLINE ADDRESS

Thursday, 28 August 2025

Parliament is sitting at present, but it’s a pleasure to be joining you virtually for the launch of the Canberra Behavioural Lab. And joining you by video is proof that the framing effect works even when the frame is a TV screen.

First, let me congratulate Uwe Dulleck, Ryan Payne, and Rebekah Russell-Bennett on making “CanBE” a reality. It’s a terrific achievement, and I’m delighted to help mark the occasion.

I also want to note my delight that Vice-Chancellor Bill Shorten unveiling the plaque today. Back in 2013, I urged then Minister Shorten to give a speech on behavioural economics and public policy. He didn’t take up the idea then, so I’m delighted that 12 years later, Bill has the chance to express his love for behavioural economics in this new capacity.

Behavioural economics matters because it gives us a richer picture of human decision-making – one that recognises our biases, habits and heuristics. It blends the insights of psychology and economics, and in doing so, it helps policymakers design choices that work better in the real world.

One well-known example is setting the default option. In retirement savings, for instance, we know that people are more likely to contribute if enrolment is automatic, with the option to opt out. Another is simplifying the way we present information – making forms shorter, letters clearer, and choices easier to compare.