The Hon Andrew Leigh MP
Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2CC RADIO CANBERRA, BREAKFAST WITH STEPHEN CENATIEMPO
TUESDAY, 5 AUGUST 2025
SUBJECTS: Canberra Trail 100 ultramarathon, Economic Reform Roundtable
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Time to talk federal politics. Well, we’re not actually going to talk much federal politics this morning with the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, and Member for Fenner Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.
ANDREW LEIGH: Good morning Stephen, great to be with you.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: You're going to disagree with this. I think running is undignified, but you obviously enjoy it. And you went, you decided to run some stupid amount of distance on your birthday?
ANDREW LEIGH: Yes, it was my birthday on Sunday.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Happy birthday by the way!
ANDREW LEIGH: Thank you very much. As luck would have it, the Sri Chinmoy Canberra Trail 100 was also scheduled on that day, so I signed up again to run 100 kilometres up and down Canberra’s mountains. In politics we're used to long campaigns, uphill battles and occasional mudslinging, and Canberra’s trails provided just that.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: I was thinking about this when I saw your social media post on the weekend. I thought, who was the person that went out and worked out how many hills there are in Canberra before you started running?
ANDREW LEIGH: There's some remarkable people involved in the team. Big shout out to Prachar Stegemann and the team who walked through and tied little bits of pink tape on the trails and took them all down afterwards. A huge volunteer effort. And every time you come into the aid stations, there's a whole lot of people working hard there. Canberra’s local sports really thrive off volunteers, as you see every weekend.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Is there a competitive edge to this? Or are you competing against yourself?
ANDREW LEIGH: When you get to an ultramarathon, you're not really worried about your place. You're more worried about whether you finish. It generates a lovely sort of camaraderie on the trails. You're always checking in on other people, making sure they got what they need, offering them a gel if they need one and looking after those who seem to be struggling. So yeah, it's a lovely, friendly aspect to it. Much more participation than competition.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: So how long did it take you?
ANDREW LEIGH: Took me 12 hours and 43 minutes. It’s a little bit quicker than last year, but a little bit slower than the year before that.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Now as we get older, recovery times are harder. How long does it take you to recover from something like that?
ANDREW LEIGH: Well, I was walking like a 100-year-old after the race, walking like an 80-year-old yesterday, and I guess I'm just about back to normal today. I might even go for a very slow shuffle tomorrow morning.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Right. Well, congratulations on getting through it and happy birthday once again. Now, I want to talk about these productivity roundtables that the Treasurer has earmarked. They seem to be morphing from productivity roundtables into tax reform roundtables, which in and of itself I don't have a problem with because I think we need wholesale tax reform. But the union movement seems to be wanting to put a handbrake on any real productivity reforms that might have to come out of these things. How is that going to be managed?
ANDREW LEIGH: I think the union movements have made a number of welcome comments. Sally McManus is out for example, talking about the importance of people being able to buy houses near where they live. I don't think many people have disagreed with that one, and ensuring that workers get a say on improving technologies like artificial intelligence. We’re looking at productivity, economic resilience and budget sustainability. So of course, tax is going to come in as part of that conversation. And you’ve seen from Treasurer Chalmers a really deliberate effort not to start ruling things out from the outset, which has really stymied a lot of some productivity conversations in Australia in the past.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah. But hasn’t he ruled out changes to the GST? Which most economists are saying is the best way to actually manage this - to broaden the GST and perhaps increase it so that other taxes can be reduced. But politically, that is poison no matter who suggests it. You know, at what point do we start doing - and I point the finger at the other side as much as I point it at your side here, because they're probably worse than you are. At what point do we stop doing the wrong thing, just because it's politically hard?
ANDREW LEIGH: Well, Treasurer Chalmers has said on the GST that it's not something that we're contemplating. Clearly, it hasn't been any part of our reform discussions or our modelling in the past.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah, but isn't that ruling out? When he says he's not going to rule things out?
ANDREW LEIGH: No, but he's quite deliberately said on the GST, people are welcome to bring their ideas to the roundtable. He's simply reflected where the government is at on the GST conversation. And then, of course you've got the legislation which says, thanks to John Howard and Peter Costello that every state gets a veto on any change to the GST, and that all the revenue goes to the states. So, that's a challenge for reform proposals.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah, but that legislation could be changed, can’t it?
ANDREW LEIGH: It certainly could, but I think it would be a significant step for any government that were to go down that path. People are welcome to bring those ideas though. We have been very deliberate in saying that people should bring their big ideas to this. This is not a conversation around small ideas. We're not going to have an annual Economic Reform Roundtable. We need to make sure that we're running a 21st Century economy on 21st Century settings, and so we're modernising the machine.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: But why is that such a bad idea to have an annual economic roundtable? I mean, surely we need to be assessing these things. Well maybe not every year, but at least biannually. Or at least every five years?
ANDREW LEIGH: It’s some of the work that the Productivity Commission does, aimed at getting stronger incomes and more competitive businesses through lifting productivity. That work the Productivity Commission does with its regular cadence of reports is important. This is really a once in a generation opportunity to look at how we make better use of data but ensure that we've got workplaces working better. Making sure we've got infrastructure that boosts output, not just ribbon cutting. And the clean energy that is now the lowest cost form of energy.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Yeah well. Okay, yeah. Well, we won't get into that. I gave you a high, a bit of a workout last week so I won't go into that with you this week, but I think the evidence shows otherwise. Andrew, good to talk to you we'll catch up again in a couple of weeks’ time.
ANDREW LEIGH: Great. Thanks Stephen.
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, and the Member for Fenner.
ENDS